First Shioh Sharps Rifle

[Jerry E. Jurena]

I am and have been a muzzleloader since 1966. I stared with a flint and now shoot a hand built 54 Sharon and a 54 double. I have used the two on deer, antelope, moose and African plains game. I am now interested in purchasing a Montana Roughrider in a 45-110. I will be hunting with it as opposed to silhouette matches. I am looking at an octagon barrel 30 inches and a pistol grip. I have been reading alot of the comments in the shooter to shooter and have found the information very helpful. My question is to you seasoned Shiloh fans does the gun I am looking at make sense? I would appreciate any and all suggestions. I have never casted any bullets myself and after reading about casting, I think that will follow in the near future.

[ffffgdave@yahoo.com]

first i would like to say the guns you are looking at from shilo could very well be the finest gun you will ever own... sharps type guns are totally differeent from muzzelloaders in more ways than one would think.. the sharps use es harder lead for higher velocity without a patch.. you may have been using pure lead in your muzzelloaders.. the comment i would like to bring out is tha surgeons were suprised at the little damage that the new cartrige guns were doing compared to the big bore muzzeloaders.. being hit by a large ball made from pure lead when shooting soft skinned game can be quite differnt from the in and out the other side of a 45 70 harder cast bullet.. next point shooting at 100 yards off hand or kneeling may not, if your sharrons are good shooters make a huge difference in accuracy, becouse of ones abilit to hold the gun under hunting conditions.. .. so it depends on what your going to do... if your after BIG game it would be a good choice... by all means buy the shilo, you will never regret it and probably order more..... but its not the same as a flintlock... i would rather get one duck a year with my chambers 16 gauge flintlock than a truck load of them with a 2 3/4 inch chamber three shot auto 12 ga... by the way ive gotten my duck this year..!!!
my opinion only.... good luck to you sir.....

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

Jerry, I think you cannot go wrong with a Shiloh of any model and would recomend you go to a few shoots and handle the different models and then decide which is best for you. A pistol grip is fine for some kinds of shooting, but for hunting, and fast target aquisition, a straight grip may be the ticket. You should shoulder them all and make your own decision. The experienced 45-110 shooters that post on this forum can be a huge help in shortening the learning curve. Also, I would suggst you shoot a gun with the Lawrence ladder sight before buying a tang sight as for a hunting gun, the tang sight may not be needed, except for load developement. Anyhow, KW and rdnk may join in and help you alot with your choice of calibre. Good Luck, David Barfield

[Jerry E. Jurena]

Thank you for your advice. I appreicate your opinion. I agree would also rather take one animal with my Hawken then a dozen with any other gun. Again, Thank you for responding. Jerry

[quote="ffffgdave@yahoo.com"]first i would like to say the guns you are looking at from shilo could very well be the finest gun you will ever own... sharps type guns are totally differeent from muzzelloaders in more ways than one would think.. the sharps use es harder lead for higher velocity without a patch.. you may have been using pure lead in your muzzelloaders.. the comment i would like to bring out is tha surgeons were suprised at the little damage that the new cartrige guns were doing compared to the big bore muzzeloaders.. being hit by a large ball made from pure lead when shooting soft skinned game can be quite differnt from the in and out the other side of a 45 70 harder cast bullet.. next point shooting at 100 yards off hand or kneeling may not, if your sharrons are good shooters make a huge difference in accuracy, becouse of ones abilit to hold the gun under hunting conditions.. .. so it depends on what your going to do... if your after BIG game it would be a good choice... by all means buy the shilo, you will never regret it and probably order more..... but its not the same as a flintlock... i would rather get one duck a year with my chambers 16 gauge flintlock than a truck load of them with a 2 3/4 inch chamber three shot auto 12 ga... by the way ive gotten my duck this year..!!!
my opinion only.... good luck to you sir.....[/quote]

[Jerry E. Jurena]

Thank you. I visited with Norman Johnson from Turtle Lake ND and he recomended the same thing. He is going to keep me informed as to when and where shoots are being held. I plan on attending a couple and hopefully do some testing. In regards to the pistol grip my Hawken does not have a pistol grib and I really like it. I guess I was not thinking. Thank you for your advice. Jerry

[quote="deerhuntsheatmeup"]Jerry, I think you cannot go wrong with a Shiloh of any model and would recomend you go to a few shoots and handle the different models and then decide which is best for you. A pistol grip is fine for some kinds of shooting, but for hunting, and fast target aquisition, a straight grip may be the ticket. You should shoulder them all and make your own decision. The experienced 45-110 shooters that post on this forum can be a huge help in shortening the learning curve. Also, I would suggst you shoot a gun with the Lawrence ladder sight before buying a tang sight as for a hunting gun, the tang sight may not be needed, except for load developement. Anyhow, KW and rdnk may join in and help you alot with your choice of calibre. Good Luck, David Barfield[/quote]

[Jim VanMiddlesworth]

Deerhuntsheatmeup, if a pistol grip stock is not optimum for hunting why is that the standard stock for hunting rifles? I recently ordered my first Sharps #1 with the raised cheek pad and pistol grip. I intend to use it for: fun, steel targets, and hunting. Am I on the wrong track?

[Ray Newman]

FWIW: I think for certain Shooters a straight stock for “snap” shooting might be quicker. But that depends upon the Shooter, the fit of the stock, & how much shooting the Shooter does w/ that rifle or shotgun.

What is really more important when hunting w/ a single shot is the ability to fire, re-cock, reload, & accurately aim—w/ the possibility of firing again—w/o removing your eyes from the game.

I knew a now deceased Win M1885 .30-40 shooter who could do this faster than greased lighting. He made it look easy & I thought so until I tried it. It does take practice, esp. w/ a single shot design that does not re-cock the hammer.

A pistol grip will pull the rifle into the shoulder for better placement, which will aid during the aim along w/ a cheek piece.

[Ray Newman]

Deerhunts… you stated “Also, I would suggst you shoot a gun with the Lawrence ladder sight before buying a tang sight as for a hunting gun, the tang sight may not be needed, except for load development.”

Why would you develop a load w/ one sight, then switch to another sight for hunting? Depending upon the Shooter’s eyesight & the sight design/quality, a barrel rear sight may not work well enough to take advantage of a finely tuned load or even be seen by the Shooter.

Maybe the re-introduced Lyman or Marbles tang sights w/ the large hunting aperture would work well in the field & assist w/ a load development while providing the Shooter trigger time w/ the sight he/she will hunt w/?

The Lyman may require altering the base to fit the Shiloh hole spacing or adding shim stock to raise it higher.

I agree that a vernier (target) type sight probably is not the best choice for hunting.

http://www.marblesoutdoors.com/sights/peep.html

[geronimo.tn]

Jerry
Seems the guys have given some good advice and going to a shoot where you can handle different rifles yourself is probably the best way to decide.
I'm about ready to place an order my self and understand the sweet anguish you're going through.
Myself , I know one can't go wrong with a #1 Sporter, yet I really like the appearrance of some of my original Remingtons and Winchesters with their slim straight (some 'perch belly') stocks. The Saddle rifle stock which is straight and also has a cheekrest seems to be calling me.
What few originals I've see almost all had straight stocks. I haven't seen that many, just a few that passes through Dixie Gun Works show room racks from time to time. Seems the using or "sporter' rifles tended to be straignt stocks with the higher end and target models having the pistol grip.
In the end, I suspect we'll both be happy with whatever Shiloh we end up with, eh?
good luck

[Ray Newman]

geronimo: you posted:

"What few originals I've see almost all had straight stocks. I haven't seen that many, just a few that passes through Dixie Gun Works show room racks.... Seems the using or "sporter' rifles tended to be straignt stocks with the higher end and target models having the pistol grip."

I think that you maybe be on to something....

[Jerry E. Jurena]

I really appreciate all the comments. I find the conversation very helpful. This is a great site and the information is outstanding. Thanks again for the ideas and suggestions and keep them coming. I am planning a trip to Big Timber this winter to look at their floor stock I can hardly wait. So the more you have to offer the better. Jerry

[ffffgdave@yahoo.com]

Why would you develop a load w/ one sight, then switch to another sight for hunting? Depending upon the Shooter’s eyesight & the sight design/quality, a barrel rear sight may not work well enough to take advantage of a finely tuned load or even be seen by the Shooter.

the peep will give a better sighting advantage thus give less dispersion, giving a quicker load development. we know this is true, but as the poster suggests why try to get a well tuned load for open sights.. i belive the answer is confidence.. if i know a gun can do a certain job, i constantly try to keep my self in the condition to do that job before i intend to use it for hunting, target, competition etc.. ill be willing to bet that many of us dont pay 2000-3000 for a gun to say that is good enough.. its confindence in the load, gun and oneself that brings one to practice, get better loads, get into better possitions for the hunting shot, etc..... each little bit of accuracy, practice, study, searching, we give up, our total ability wanes just a little... if allowed it can snoball into a sloppy shot..... every one must follow thier own drum, and i realize my drum is different than others objectives..... these are my opinions only, and as i dont have a good load, or know how to handle it if i did, im not totally confindent in my sharps with open sights, YET!!!!!! this afternoon i was shooting her and just before dark i finally got over to the 300 yard range... light was horrific. my eyes are bad but have glasses, . the 13 inch gong is very hard to see without looking thru the sights let alone cut it in half.. luckily there was a kind guy there with a spoting scope.. i asked him to spot.. he obliged and the two of them went down to get thier targets and wanted to talk, while light was fading.. finally got to shoot , two shots under the gong with 1/8 drill bit under the slide.. tried 5/32 under the slide and the spotter said i was over.. slipped in a 9/64 and heard the smack of steel at 300 yards.... i thanked the gentleman let him shoot my 74 and started cleaning. he shot dead on right ot left but quite a bit high.. probably typical for a scope shooter that has a one phase consentration in sighting... packed up thinking that hitting that gong made my day.. sights were dark, gong was fuzzy, terrible conditions, but i know the gong was there, and i knew the gun could do it, so i gave it 100 percent.. thats what makes my day...if you dont think you can do it you wont even get out of bed....... 5 blows on tube, 29 degrees, 70 grains 3fg goex, spg lube, 385 grn lyman round nose with gas check, 25-1 lead to tin, 459 sizer, 459 extra long expander, crimped just enough to hold bullet in over compressed powder, 215 federal primers, winchester cases, bullets indexed when sized, seated and loaded... ...... good luck..dave.. helena montana..

[ssdave]

If you are going to use this rifle only for hunting, I would suggest you shorten the barrel length ordered to either 26 or 28 inches.

I have a number of different length barrels, and my only choice for hunting is my 26 inch barreled one. It balances to carry much better, and is a lot handier to get up and onto target. Long barrels are a lot more suited for deliberate long range shooting than practical hunting shots.

I have the combination ladder/buckhorn sight that smith enterprises makes on the barrel of my hunting rifle, I think it's nearly unbeatable as a hunting sight. I'm not familiar with what will be offered for your sharps, but if one similar is available, that would be my recommendation. My second choice would be a 4 leaf express sight. I have this on a couple of my rifles, and it's almost as good as the ladder/buckhorn.


Good Luck,
Dave