casting vs. swaging

wwben47 · Post by **wwben47** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:01 pm

Since I am new to BPCR I am going to have to buy some new equipment regardless which method I choose. I wondered if I could get some opinions as to why casting seems far and away more popular than swaging. The idea of avoiding molten metal definitely appeals to me. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:40 pm

wwben47 -
Sooner or later, you will end up casting if only to deal with the waste lead that you will generate by swaging. Also, you really cannot swage grease groove bullets effectively with home style equipment. Nor can you easily mess with bullet alloy.

That said, I have two swaging presses, one from each of the Corbin brothers, and I much prefer paper patched bullets to grease grooves.

Oh yeah, swaging is both more expensive, and for my money, slower.

Brent

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:12 pm

If you do get into casting, let me be the first to tell you about the Waage melting pot. A lot of us on this forum have found it to be the best we've used. To get one you'll have to call the company, they don't have them listed on their web (at least they didn't when I looked). Go to www.waage.com and get their number and tell them you want the k4757 pot. Shipping and all comes to around $130 and it is the best I've ever had, I've had RCBS and Lee before. After that about all you need is a good thermometer, a ladle (RCBS or Lyman), a good mold and some alloy and you're in business. Oh, and some ingot molds and heavy leather gloves and all the other little things that I've forgotten about.

wwben47 · Post by **wwben47** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:55 pm

Brent and Ken,
Thanks for the input. Very helpful!.. Considering that my home range only goes to 300 yards, what would be a good "starter mould" for both paper patch bullets and grease groove? (My rifle will be used mainly for informal targets and hunting).

ironramrod · Post by **ironramrod** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:26 pm

WWBen47,

Don't forget to wear some kind of eye protection, when working with molten lead or molten anything else for that matter. It doesn't have to be fancy or expensive, but you should wear something.

It only takes 1 good splatter of 800 deg. lead in your shooting eye to change your shooting endeavors forever. Be careful!

Regards

wwben47 · Post by **wwben47** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:46 pm

Ironramrod,
Thanks for the tip! It is amazing how much there is to learn in this sport! Hope to meet some of you at the Sagebrush Shoot in August..Buckeye Shooter invited me to tag along..I will be the one standing around looking confused.

BuckeyeShooter · Post by **BuckeyeShooter** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:53 pm

Hey Wes we are going to have fun on that trip. In reference to your question about the bullets. The Saeco 745 is a good starting place for a production mould. I also have a Lyman 125 that casts a fairly nice goverment style bullet. The Paul Jones Creedmore should be here in a couple of weeks. When you get up this way we can cast you some of each and you can decide what works best for you. Talk to you later.

James M · Post by **James M** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:16 am

What exactly makes the Waage k4757 pot better, besides price ?

powderburner · Post by **powderburner** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:57 am

mostly its high quality thermostat.it keeps the lead at a real even temperature which computes to real even bullet wweights

ironramrod · Post by **ironramrod** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:37 am

WWBen47,

Another cautionary note that I forgot to mention, when I mentioned the safety glasses.

When you add lead to a pot of molten alloy, make sure that the lead you are adding is completely bone dry; no moisture anyplace. If any moisture is accidentally added to the pot of molten alloy, it immediately turns to steam and blows variable amounts of hot alloy everyplace you can imagine. A small scale 800+ deg. bomb.

A good friend of mine cleaned 20 lbs. of lead out of a pot once, when he added some lead pipe that apparently had a bunch of frost built up on the inside. He was fortunate he didn't get burned badly, but he he had a lot of lead splatters on his glasses; his workshop had a new shiny, speckled decor to it, too.

Regards
Regards

mrrangerman · Post by **mrrangerman** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:24 am

James m

The waage is insulated so it will keep a even temp better, and has a good thermastat. I used a Lyman mag pot for a while untill i got the waage. Got rid of the Lyman. I could turn off the Lyman pot and within 10 min the lead was hard, hot but hard. The first time I used the waage pot after I was done, I turned it off, went in the house, came back about 40min latter and the lead was still liquid in the center of the pot. I also talked with Bill Ferguson The antimony man and he speaks highly of the waage 4757. For the price I don't think you can do better.

Beruisis · Post by **Beruisis** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:11 pm

wwben47,
I see that you are still in the dark when you said that your rifle will only be used for hunting & informal target work. That is what I thought when I took my 50/90 to a match that I was invited to many years back. You get to thinking that if you only had this or that, that you'd be shooting as good as or even better than the rest of these full time target shooters. Then when you do add to your armament, the gain isn't exactly what you thought it would be but there is a hint of improvement...and so it goes. It sucks you in. I hung up my trusty 50/90 with barrel sights that would dust deer & hogs whenever I dropped the hammer. Went on to purchase target rifles with all kinds of sights....40/70, 45/70, 40/65 and then another hunting rifle in 40/90. And you'll always need another bullet mould. And don't wear sandels while casting....I found good heavy boots to be a better alternative.
Good luck in your endeavors....you're about to experience a new way of life!

wwben47 · Post by **wwben47** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

Beruisis..Grinning here..Thanks to all for the safety tips and the info on the Waage pot. So many times someone finds a sport or hobby that they are interested in..and because they cant find help or information, they end up scratching their head..and eventually quitting in frustration. Thats the great thing about Shiloh providing this forum. It keeps "pilgrims" like me from getting lost in all the info out there...Now about that 40/90!...

Beruisis · Post by **Beruisis** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:14 pm

wwben47, also the people you'll meet at the BP matches are some of the finest anywhere. Most generally they'll go out of their way to answer questions about loads, guns, shooting & other equipment. I have encountered several who wanted me to shoot entire matches with their rifles & loads, will lend you bullet moulds, let you try their bullets, lube, etc. There is a danger in all this however.....stay around these folks for just a little while & you'll drop your guard a bit, then you'll go back to the general public & have to face reality.
I see you're tempted by the 40/90 cartridge. You may as well give in to it. I've been hunting with it for several years. You'll be surprised at how much faster the bullet gets to the target compared to a 45/70. I used a cast bullet with a meplat of 3/10". Shocking. Extraction is as easy as with any other cartridge. If you purchase a nice rig & aren't happy with it, let me know.
B

BuckeyeShooter · Post by **BuckeyeShooter** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:53 pm

Wes, all you need is $250 to put that gun on order when were up in Big Timber in August. Of course when you get to see all the other toys they have you may just want to take one home off the rack. Just bring your VISA